Note: The recording includes some interruptions in audio between 0:46:28 and 0:51:44.

Below is the text version of the webinar titled "National Hydrogen Safety Training Resource for Emergency Responders," originally presented on March 24, 2015. In addition to this text version of the audio, you can access the presentation slides.

Chris Werth:
Welcome to the hydrogen safety webinar. My name is Chris Werth and I am the organizer for this. We'll begin shortly, but first I have a few housekeeping items to tell you about. Today's webinar is being recorded and the recording, along with the slides, will be posted to our website in about ten days. We will send out an email to attendees once those are posted to the site.

[Slide 2]

All attendees will be on mute throughout the webinar, so please submit your questions via the questions box that you should see on your webinar panel. We will cover those questions during the Q&A at the end of the presentation. Since we have multiple speakers today, please indicate who your question is for when submitting your questions. With that, I would like to introduce our DOE host, Will James, joining us from Washington D.C. Will leads the Safety, Codes and Standards Program in the Fuel Cell Technologies Office. Good afternoon, Will.

[Slide 3]

Will James:
Thanks, Chris. As Chris already mentioned, my name is Will James and on behalf of the Fuel Cell Technologies Office, I would like to welcome you to today's webinar. I will be moderating today's webinar and would just like to say a few words before we proceed. This webinar is designed to be the first introduction to the National Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Emergency Response Training Resource that was announced in February by the Fuel Cell Technologies Office, along with its potential uses and future enhancements.

We are pleased today to have two speakers: Nick Barilo from the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory and Jennifer Hamilton from the California Fuel Cell Partnership. Nick is the hydrogen safety program manager at Pacific Northwest National Laboratory and a licensed fire protection engineer with more than 30 years of experience. Nick has served on the NFPA 2 Hydrogen Technologies Code Committee since its inception in 2006 and was instrumental in organizing the first eight chapters of the initial release of the code in 2011, and he continues to be an active member.

In 2007 Nick joined the Hydrogen Safety Panel and has served as program manager for hydrogen safety, supporting the DOE's Fuel Cell Technologies Office, since 2012. As program manager, Nick directs activities for the Hydrogen Safety Panel, safety knowledge dissemination and first responder training tasks, which include the development of the Hydrogen Tools portal.

Our second speaker will be Jennifer Hamilton from the California Fuel Cell Partnership. She is the safety and education specialist and has led the outreach and education to first responders and permitting officials at the Partnership since 2006. She has reached thousands in the California community where hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and stations exist and will be coming soon.

In addition to working with PNNL on the national emergency responder activities, she has a working relationship with the California Office of the State Fire Marshal, the U.S. Department of Energy, the National Fire Academy, and the NFPA for implementing first responder education. In parallel, Jennifer also actively participates in various safety, codes, and standards groups including SAE International, the CSA group, and ISO on items related to vehicle and fueling station safety.

As a reminder, as Chris mentioned, please don't forget to submit your questions in the box over to the right. And so now I thank you and will now turn it over to Nick.

Nick Barilo:
Thanks, Chris and Will. And welcome, everyone, to this webinar on hydrogen and fuel cell first responder training resources. Next slide.

[Slide 4]

So the national program that DOE has focused on first responder training is to support the successful implementation of hydrogen and fuel cell technologies by providing technically accurate information on hydrogen safety and emergency response information to first responders. This includes three primary parts of the training resources. The first is an online awareness-level training; the second, a classroom and hands-on operations-level training with props; and the third is the recently announced national training resource.

Many of these training resources were developed in collaboration with the California Fuel Cell Partnership and we are currently also partnering with the National Fire Academy to identify ways for broader dissemination of the information. The key here is that a properly trained first responder community is critical to the successful introduction of hydrogen fuel cell applications and their transformation in how we use energy. Next slide.

[Slide 5]

While cars are coming, hydrogen infrastructure remains the greatest challenge to commercialization of hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles. To address this, in 2013 DOE along with automakers and other key stakeholders launched H2USA, a public private partnership to address the key challenges of hydrogen infrastructure. H2USA currently has 35 participants, including the state of California, as well as developers, car companies, and hydrogen providers. Having properly trained first responders will address a key barrier, ensure safe transition to fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen infrastructure, and pave the way for broader public acceptance. Next slide.

[Slide 6]

The partnership contains four working groups: a locations roadmap working group, a market support and acceleration working group, a financing infrastructure working group, and a hydrogen fueling station working group. This project is in support of the activity of the market support and acceleration working group. Next slide.

[Slide 7]

So this is a rather mature program as you can see from the timeline provided on the screen. The initial activity started in 2002 with the California Fuel Cell Partnership developing an ER education program. In 2007 DOE released the online awareness-level training, followed in 2009 by the operations-level class and props being made available. The National Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Emergency Response Training Resource was announced last month was actually made available on October 1.

We have plans for future enhancements which we'll talk about later. Some of the accomplishments to date: the online training has seen over 31,000 visits; the PNNL based operations-level training, which includes the props, has been attended by 1,000 firefighters; the California Fuel Cell Partnership training has reached over 7,000 first responders. Next slide, please.

[Slide 8]

So let's take a look at the first part of this, which is the online training. As you can see, this is a slide taken from the actual online training. It covers seven topical areas—[coughs] excuse me—including basics, hydrogen vehicles, stationary facilities, emergency response, transportation and storage, hydrogen dispensing, and codes and standards. Next slide, please.

[Slide 9]

So this slide is an example slide of some of the content that is in that online training. And as you can see down in the lower left, there's audio controls for listening into the narration or if you want to read, it's the same text there as well. Okay, next slide.

[Slide 10]

The operations-level training consists of typically two parts, though it can be modified and made to whatever is needed for a particular venue. Classroom content, which covers things like fuel cell basics, vehicles, stationary applications, emergency response, and incident scenarios. Demonstration with hands on prop has also been done. That's part of that 1,000 persons that have taken it and that includes demonstration of the flame characteristics of hydrogen as well as student participation and rescue activities. Next slide.

[Slide 11]

This is out of our table of contents for our instructor's manual for that just to give you a little better feel for what some of that content is. Also, a couple pictures at the right there provide some view of some of the classes in action. That's an IR camera that's picking up the flames and showing the difference between the hydrogen flames and a propane flame. The lower right, so the actual vehicle prop you'll see up there is the silver prop, and the lower picture of the silver car is the prop. And the other cars are there for part of that hands on exercise. Next slide.

[Slide 12]

So all the training that we've done over the years had led us to a place of realizing that we needed to provide materials to enable trainers to perform their own training. As things develop here, it's obvious that we're not going to be able to do all the training and that's not really our central focus or goal. So the Partnership and PNNL got together with the intent of developing a consistent source of accurate information and current knowledge that's adaptable to the specific needs of the training organizations.

So the goal here was to help put a set of information out into the hands of the trainers so that they could have a consistent theme and a consistent message is being said so that we don't get off into themes or messages that may not be accurate. It's also to enable that information to be as up to date as possible. So the course is set up with a template, if you will, and I'll show you a picture of that on the next slide with various levels of how it can be applied. I would stress that we really do need feedback from the users. It will help to make the program better in the future. So if you download that material and you look at it or use it, and you have some feedback, we certainly welcome that and it will help improve it for everyone; so highly encouraged.

[Slide 13]

As you can see on the current slide that the material really came from all our learnings and all our materials that were presented before. So it's approved and vetted material, it's been updated.

There's three levels like I talked about, but while we provide three levels, it's not meant to be prescriptive. You can take and use pieces of that 130-slide deck in whichever way you feel is appropriate for your audience. Next slide.

[Slide 14]

We took an outline approach at really assembling material and developing new material, and this kind of gives you a look at how we developed this outline with the various topics. Next slide.

[Slide 15]

And I mentioned that we've broken it into three levels of what we would call an overview course, a short course, and a full course. So a lot of those topics that you saw on the previous slide, and you'll see on the next two, are actual slides that came out and were developed. And we've kind of tried to give you a recommendation here with the check boxes on which ones would be appropriate for which type of course. It's not meant to be restrictive, though. And you have the freedom to use it in any way you see fit. So next slide.

[Slide 16]

So here we are breaking down the topics a little further. You can see how those topics, as they break down and we bring slides, those are actual slides from the slide deck and shows how some of the subtopics are covered and presented in information. Next slide.

[Slide 17]

In addition, there's also practical exercises at the end to walk through with your group to discuss those. And at this point I'll say before I move too much further that each slide is provided with notes for the instructor to help them understand and apply and present that information. So we don't leave you hanging with just the information itself. We give you some guidelines and help for how to lead the instruction of that material as well. Next slide.

[Slide 18]

And I think at this point I'm going to turn it over to Jennifer, who will take you through the short course and we'll talk a little more at the end when she's finished. Jennifer.

Jennifer Hamilton:
Thank you, Nick, and welcome, everybody. So I am going to go through an example of how the material could be used in the form of sort of the overview level, and so this will, again, be high level. I'm going to go through and sort of give some of the talking points and talk you through as opposed to giving the actual presentation. So next slide.

[Slide 19]

This slide is really, I think, for the instructor to give some background on the program and why we're making this available. I wouldn't necessarily recommend—if the trainer feels the need, to read it to the audience, but not necessary. Next slide.

[Slide 20]

Next slide.

[Slide 21]

Okay, so this is just the title slide and there we go. So, of course, we start with an introduction and background. Each section will have a sort of title slide like this, giving some outline of what the section will cover. Next slide.

[Slide 22]

So we start with a high level fuel cells overview, some of the talking points for this slide—and as Nick said they do come with notes—and the overall message that fuel cells convert chemical fuels directly into electricity and it can go into some of the diverse energy sources for the fuel, the different kinds of fuel cells, and then the diverse applications for fuel cells. So it gives some high level background, some context in terms of where this technology is being used. Next slide.

[Slide 23]

A question that can come up often is why even do hydrogen? So this slide is meant to go over some of the reasons why the industry has—is looking at hydrogen for transportation fuel. Some of the bullets there that highlight, it is a fuel, but it can be just as safe if not safer than gasoline, and it actually has a good safety record in industry for quite some time. And some of the other advantages, you can say, of using hydrogen. Next slide.

[Slide 24]

Also, where hydrogen comes from. People may not be aware that it's actually produced in some pretty great quantities currently and so this slide is meant to talk about the more common methods of producing hydrogen from natural gas and then the fact that moving towards the renewable source for both the energy and the source of hydrogen is where ultimately we'd like to see things going, and that’s where much of the research is headed, in the renewable pathway. Next slide.

[Slide 25]

This is a nice list of current industrial uses for hydrogen. So again, just giving some context. Hydrogen isn't new in the sense that it is used in industry. What might be a fairly new concept for folks is the fact that it's being used as a transportation fuel or for some of these other applications and personal use and portable power and stationary power. And again, highlight the safety record. It has a fairly good safety record in industry.

There are, in the notes, a few resources for the trainers as well on production and hydrogen facts and things like that, so they can dig a little more into this if they like. One of the, I think, main talking points on this is, and people may not realize, is hydrogen is used extensively in the gasoline business for refining fuel. So it just sort of again gives it a little bit of context. Next slide.

[Slide 26]

Then we get into some of the properties of hydrogen and behavior. It is a little bit different in some areas than maybe some other fuels that folks are more used to dealing with. One of the main things is the fact that it's a cryogen. And so there's a few sub bullets there, pointing out that while we're using gaseous hydrogen, compressed for storage on the vehicles, it doesn't have a liquid phase when it's compressed. And it actually needs to be at minus 423 Fahrenheit for it to be liquid.

And the reason that that's different is things like propane or some more commonly used items, pressurizing it does cause it to liquefy. So it's just, I think, an important distinction to point out, a difference of hydrogen than some other fuels. And then another talking point is that last bullet that a kilogram of hydrogen is approximately equal in energy to a gallon of gasoline. So if you were to burn a kilogram of hydrogen and burn a gallon of gas, you'd get about the same Btus. Next slide.

[Slide 27]

So going on further on some of the properties. Looks a little academic, but there's some kind of higher level talking points. Here, we point out the buoyancy, the fact that hydrogen is 14 times lighter than air. Also, again back to the kilogram thing, that it is metered, and we talk about it by weight, and it has more energy by weight than by volume, when comparing it to gasoline.

And for emergency responders, this can be an important point because when you put this together with the fact that fuel cells are very efficient in how they use the fuel, there's a lot less energy that's needed onboard the vehicles to get comparable range. So there's four to six gallons of gas equivalent in energy to get the range in the 250  to 350 plus mile range.

Another talking point here is the fact that hydrogen is odorless. There is of course mercaptan that's used to odorize natural gas, and gasoline has its own odor. So the reasons for that are the buoyancy and small molecular weight of hydrogen, but more importantly, the fact that an odorant can be detrimental to the fuel cell and its function. So there are other methods for detecting hydrogen that would be gone into in a more detailed presentation. Next slide.

[Slide 28]

I think it's important to recognize that, of course, hydrogen is flammable, and here's again a comparison of hydrogen to other fuels that, again, people are a little more used to dealing with. And there are both flammability and explosive limits listed here because for hydrogen, they're actually these two sets of numbers. The important thing to point out is that the hydrogen gas sensors, for example, employed both in vehicles and at stations are going to be reacting and designed to ultimately shut systems down at levels below that lower flammability limit. So while we recognize that hydrogen does have a wide flammability range, there are safety systems to mitigate getting to those kinds of levels of hydrogen and air mixtures.

Well, one of the other things to point out is the most easily ignited mixture in air is quite a bit higher than, again, more familiar fuels. And that while a pure hydrogen flame can be difficult to see with the naked eye, and the radiant heat is lower because there's no carbon there, the internal flame temperature is still quite hot. So that's a comparison on the bottom there, the flame temperatures. Next slide.

[Slide 29]

So then we get into some basics of fuel cells, just again pointing out that there are different types and I believe that one of the talking points on the slide is that it is a PEM fuel cell that's used on-board the vehicles. You can have different types of fuel cells for stationary applications or portable or things like that. But when talking about light-duty passenger vehicles and buses it's a proton exchange membrane hydrogen fuel cell. Next slide.

[Slide 30]

So this is a diagram that has been quite popular in the California Fuel Cell Partnership publication of How it Works. So it's a diagram of obviously how a fuel cell works and we've given this out in our How it Works booklet. Thousands of times, I could say at various outreach events, it's been very useful. And I think it gives a good play-by-play of what's going on inside the fuel cell and how the vehicle is generating its electricity using hydrogen and oxygen. Next slide.

[Slide 31]

So we want to move on to an overview of the kinds of vehicles that someone might see in their community. The fact that these are electric vehicles, only they're not plugged in like a battery electric, and they're a hybrid, only they're not fueled with gasoline or some other fuels, they are fueled with hydrogen. And like an electric vehicle, they're very quiet and they're also zero emission. Of course, we have the bus on there because there are fuel cell buses as well. Next slide.

[Slide 32]

And then to point out some of the vehicles that are being driven by your average everyday consumer. They've been in lease programs in different sizes and areas in California and a few places elsewhere in the U.S. So if someone had seen one of these running around their neighborhood, they can put it into the context here. Next slide.

[Slide 33]

And then, of course, it's always fun to show what may be coming down the pipe, so this is Honda's concept vehicle that they unveiled recently and have been using in some of their outreach. So it's just kind of fun to maybe look at the future a little bit. Next slide.

[Slide 34]

Giving an example of a vehicle system layout and pointing out that, of course, there's going to be variations in how these components are laid out depending on the vehicle, but essentially a fuel cell electric vehicle will have the same components much like a conventional gasoline vehicle has essentially the same components, and so then there's talking points to go through each of these components. And a little bit on their function here. Of course, we have on-board storage, providing fuel to the fuel cell, which is generating the electricity, distributed through power electronics to an electric motor.

There's also the high voltage battery, which captures the regenerative braking energy and we point out that there's still a cooling system on-board the vehicle as well. So again, these might be laid out differently. One thing personally I like to point out is that the fuel tanks are in the same general vicinity that you would expect to find a gasoline tank or the fuel tank on a vehicle, but perhaps, the fuel cell is back, or the electronics can be under the hood or along the floor, and that currently all the vehicles have front-wheel drive, so the electric motor vehicle will be in the front of the vehicle. Next slide.

[Slide 35]

The high voltage system is essentially what first responders may have been seeing already in other hybrid and electric vehicles. The orange is indicating high voltage and that there are safety systems in the form of inertia switches, ground fault monitoring, and so forth that will detect if the system is compromised. And it's essentially designed to short itself out. And something else that's maybe a talking point is that during normal operation, the high voltage and fuel systems are isolated on shutdown of the vehicle. Next slide.

[Slide 36]

Moving on to the fuel storage and hydrogen delivery. This is an example of a couple of the tank setups. So an important point here is that while the vehicles all store hydrogen, it may be in a single tank, it may be multiple tanks; and it just depends on the vehicle. So there's two examples here of a Honda Clarity and a GM vehicle with different tank system set-ups. The bullets there, that the distribution lines are lower pressure. So the pressurized fuel at that high pressure is, for the most part, isolated to the compressed hydrogen storage cylinders. And the pressure in the lines is stepped down and regulated to the fuel cell stacks. I'm also pointing out that there are thermally activated pressure relief devices in each tank, and there are associated vents that can vent independently off of each tank or may be directed to a common vent location. Next slide.

[Slide 37]

And looking at the same sort of thing in a bus. Clearly, with a larger vehicle, there are more tanks. A commonality with, for example, CNG buses, is that they do carry the fuel on the roof. And again, there are thermally activated pressure relief devices and all the associated tubing and so forth, should the tanks have to vent in the case of fire. Next slide.

[Slide 38]

So talking a little more about the fuel storage system. This is a nice photo of Type 3, 35 versus 70 megapascal cylinders and showing the difference in the liner thickness and the carbon fiber overwrap. One of the observations that's often made by first responders is that this type of tank is very similar—different size but very similar to what is in their SCBA that they wear, their packs that they wear for their breathing apparatus, since they're carbon fiber, also. Again, highlighting the TPRDs and the robustness of the tanks. Okay, next slide.

[Slide 39]

So this slide goes a little bit more into the tanks themselves and the fact that they are designed to meet very specific standards and they go through some fairly rigorous testing for certification. They do come with a lifetime and have a safety rating that goes beyond what their actual service pressure is. And this is just some of the main and intense testing that these things go through by batch. Next slide.

[Slide 40]

And finally, this is just, again, to highlight that the tests are part of the design qualification for new tanks, that the qualifying factor is that they vent the contents and don't rupture. So they put them through various insults and then have to maintain the integrity and vent through the TPRD and not rupture. And those are in accordance with the most recent vehicle tank standards. Okay, I think that might be the last—oh, no, we still have to do stationary.

[Slide 41]

Stationary facilities. So this is just to go a little bit over where we're getting this hydrogen fuel and the different kinds of stationary facilities, which can include, of course, the stationary fuel cells, bulk storage, and fueling stations where the vehicles would be getting their fuel. Next slide.

[Slide 42]

Of course, first responders are very familiar with these NFPA placards, but just to highlight that this is what they'd want to look for for either gaseous storage or liquid storage. Next slide.

[Slide 43]

And then here's some examples of actual fueling stations, and in the notes it goes through where each station is located and what their hydrogen source is so that can be anything from on site manufacturing through steam methane reforming, or an electrolyzer, to delivery via gaseous tube trailer, liquid hydrogen, or pipeline. And that actually is the last of the overview. I'll turn it over back to Nick.

[Slide 44]

Nick Barilo:
Thanks, Jennifer. Thank you. Good job. So I do want to talk a little bit about how to download it and that sort of thing. So the resource is available right now, the URL is provided on this slide. That URL is part of the Hydrogen Tools portal, and I'll just take a minute here to give you some input on what that's doing. The Hydrogen Tools portal is slated to come online here very shortly. Its purpose is to bring together a wide variety of hydrogen safety resources and Web based content into a single location to help those designing, approving, using, or responding to incidents understand the safety aspects, maybe do more investigation.

It will have such resources as best practices, lessons learned, compatibility of materials, some codes and standards information as well. And that's just to start. We have hopes and plans to bring additional resources into the portal to make it much more valuable for the users. So that portal, you can download information right now, but the portal itself will be online probably in the next few weeks. Okay, next slide.

[Slide 45]

So this is giving you a little bit of a look at the portal and, again, centralized location. We are actually tailoring the portal to focus in on user groups. There's eight user groups we identified. Those include first responders, AHJ/code officials, project proponents, operations and maintenance folks, that sort of thing.

A responsive design—so we currently have an IOS app, a Hydrogen Tools IOS app that is available and brings many tools together. The responsive design that will be done with this site will allow it to be used on any mobile device, whether it be a phone or a tablet. And that will be across Android, IOS, et cetera. So that's beneficial as well. And really probably one of the more important parts is that the information here is going to be credible and reliable safety information from a trustworthy source.

And one last feature that I'd like to highlight is we're working to develop trusted communities. So what that means is that for first responders, there will be a community set up for first responders that allows those first responders to ask questions, respond to questions, make comments, that sort of thing. One thing we found over the last few years in talking with a variety of folks is that they would really like to have a way to connect with others that have been a part of activities or projects, to understand their learnings and benefit from those learnings and reach out. So this was really a direct result of feedback that we received from those that have had some experience with deployments and dealing with the issues. Okay, next slide.

[Slide 46]

So planning for the future. We're not really going to stop here. We're not drawing a line in the sand. We're really looking at updating the information, keeping it current, adding new types of media and content to make it a richer learning experience as well as bring it to a broader audience. To that purpose, we're finalizing a plan that was done together with a variety of first responders, equipment providers, et cetera, to look at what the options were and identify things like new, smaller props and prop kits that can help address the tactile needs of the participants; developing new and updated videos and enhanced videos; providing new photographs, we recognize that's going to be an ongoing challenge and we really need to keep it in the forefront. And a little bit further down is considering virtual reality tools for immersing students in real world scenarios. There's actually some work going on internationally along that line, and it's a pretty interesting concept, and hopefully we can find a way to bring it to you as well. Next slide.

[Slide 47]

So just to reiterate a little bit of what our vision is, it's really bringing that consistent source of accurate and current information to allow a variety of training regimes to deploy that material in a way that will benefit them. It's also to encourage collaborations among the stakeholders to achieve purposeful results. At the end of the day, the goal here is to remove those barriers, help take down the obstacles for helping deploy the hydrogen and fuel cell technologies, and to bring this to bear on the commercial market and make sure the communities are ready to receive it. Okay, next slide.

[Slide 48]

So I do want to acknowledge that this was done in a collaborative effort with the Partnership and we appreciate all their work. It was also done with funding from the Fuel Cell Technologies Office of the Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy section of the U.S. Department of Energy. In particular, the manager at the office, Sunita Satyapal, and Will James, Laura Hill, and Kristen Nawoj. And also the reviewers. This shows the list of reviewers and in the planning, we've actually had more folks come on board. So all those that have been involved in helping us bring this to you, we appreciate all their help and encouragement. Last slide.

[Slide 49]

So if you have—certainly questions, we'll take some of those—but if in the future, going out, if you want to send questions to us direct or talk with us about anything, we've provided some contact information, and we look forward to your questions and feedback. So thanks for listening in. We appreciate the time and I'll turn it over to Will to facilitate the questions.

Will James:
Thanks, Nick and Jennifer. Great presentation. Before we get into the Q&A part, I just wanted to remind everybody—I'm not sure if it was discussed at the beginning—there should be a Question Box over when you logged in that popped up over on the right-hand side of your screen. So for those of you that were looking to where exactly do you submit the questions, please submit them there and we'll try to get through them.

So we're going to go into the Q&A portion of the webinar and so the first question was asked whether the material will be available in PDF or not. So we typically will post the presentation as well as the recording within about ten working days from the date of the webinar.

But the next question, probably for Nick, is to basically give an overall perspective from the fuel cell tank size or capacity on how they differentiate between vehicles—light duty vehicles and buses.

Nick Barilo:
So Will, you can feel free to jump in on this one a little bit. The vehicles are typically 10,000 psi tanks with a capacity of around 5 kilograms. I believe the buses go into a higher range of 10 to 15 kilograms, but Will, you're welcome to join in on that one.

Jennifer Hamilton:
Nick, did you mean per tank or total?

Nick Barilo:
Yes, I'm sorry. Per tank, that's correct. And I think actually the tank, so it's five kilograms. Correct me, Jennifer, it's five kilograms on the car, and that could be one or split between two tanks.

Jennifer Hamilton:
Yeah, the range in the vehicles is between about four on the lower side and up toward six right now on the higher side, but probably an average around five or so kilograms total storage in the system. And then buses, I don't know individual tank storage, but total storage is right around the 40 or so kilogram range, 40 to 50 kilograms total storage at 35 megapascals or 5,000 psi.

Will James:
So Jennifer, the next question is for you. The question is, are hydrogen vehicles required to be identified in any specific way so first responders know that a vehicle is hydrogen-powered?

Jennifer Hamilton:
The vehicles are required to be badged accordingly with make and model like you would expect any other vehicle. And there currently is a document in progress within SAE for first and second responders that goes further into some badging suggestions, and that has—there is work to harmonize those badging suggestions with other SAE safety documents for hydrogen and fuel cell vehicles. So an example is with the current vehicles, for example the Honda Clarity FCX, so it has the letters FC, which would indicate fuel cell. The new Toyota Mirai FCV, so again FC indicating fuel cell.

And something important that I mentioned in speaking with first responders, if a vehicle is a fuel cell vehicle, it will have no other fuel than hydrogen. So while the vehicle may not necessarily indicate hydrogen on it, if it's a fuel cell vehicle, it will be hydrogen. There are also, as an example, of a blue diamond, which follows some previous badging for CNG that might be used, but it's, again, not a requirement.

So look for this document coming from SAE. Well, it's for auto manufacturers but from the perspective of first and second responders being able to manage vehicles in incidents that has suggestions for badging. So I hope that answered the question.

Will James:
I think that does. I know you mentioned secondary responders. Is there any plan to possibly introduce any information into the training material related to secondary responders?

Jennifer Hamilton:
Yeah, Nick, you want to talk about that?

Nick Barilo:
Yeah. So that's kind of been an ongoing on-and-off again topic and certainly one that I don't think we're ready to definitively say in either direction on. It's been recognized that secondary responders really need information and can play an important role. So how that's handled in the future is still really yet to be worked through. And if you have some suggestions on that, we certainly would welcome your feedback. And if you desire to see more of that type of information, please let us know because that may help shape where we go with future content.

Will James:
Great. This question talks about the hands on and rescue course. Is that a residence course conducted somewhere, or is it a traveling-type class that you could bring to a certain location? And that would be for Nick.

Nick Barilo:
That's a really great question. Sorry I didn't address it sooner. Yes, the classroom and hands on course is a traveling course for the most part. We're located in Washington state and we have a facility here, but we also can arrange for that to be given. As a matter of fact, we're having some tentative plans to provide that training in the Northeast probably in the spring of 2016.

So the prop itself is part of a trailer assembly and we take that trailer and we travel to a location and then provide the classroom training along with use of the prop and demonstration; some response, if that's so desired, that sort of thing as well. Yes, it can be taken to locations; and that would be subject to working out the details, resources, and that sort of thing.

Will James:
Great. The next question, I don't know if it would need to go to Nick or Jennifer, but the question is, has a DOT crash-test been developed for the light-duty vehicles?

Jennifer Hamilton:
So Will, feel free to jump in here, too, but to my knowledge, of course, the vehicles have to be crash tested and that is per current FMVSS for hybrid and electric vehicles. And the GTR will ultimately be adopted by NHTSA to be the hydrogen FMVSS, and that is in process. I don't know if you have any other updates on that timeline, Will.

Nick Barilo:
Actually, I don't know if I have the timing of it, but I just know that they're in the process of reviewing the document to convert it to the hydrogen specific FMVSS now.

Will James:
The next question is around coordination; it talks about whether there could be any coordination either with Clean Cities—

[interruption in audio 0:46:28 to 0:49:29]

The next question for Nick is, how does a company become involved in the training aspect in basically giving the training for the first responders?

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Nick Barilo:
I think—

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Will James:
Specifically, has there been any learning—

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Jennifer Hamilton:
Not specifically with CNG trainers, but that is—

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—along with other alternative vehicle training that's been provided. For example, from L.A. Fire Department, they did an alternative fuel vehicle training within their department and presented all different sorts of alternative fuels and our component was the hydrogen portion. And we're certainly, I think, open to that. And as more alternative fuel vehicles are on the road, it would be, in my opinion, great to be able to incorporate all of those—because one nice thing is the ability to sort of compare across the board, and some of the more detailed slides in the program do that, the similarities of the different types of alternative fuel vehicles and their systems, so it's nice when there's sort of a bigger picture on that.

Will James:
I know in the webinar today, we only saw a small snapshot of the slides, the type of slides that are in the slide package, but are there any materials within the bigger slide package that covers hydrogen sensors or detectors or leak detection?

Jennifer Hamilton:
Not the technology necessarily, but it goes a little bit more into overall safety systems for vehicles and stations and does talk about the fact that they are employed, but it doesn't discuss the specific technology.

Will James:
Just a few more questions and we're starting to wrap up. One question continues to build on coordination—is there any thoughts to, or is there any coordination with the Department of Transportation's training program?

Nick Barilo:
So we haven't worked directly with DOT to develop or implement any materials. It could be an opportunity in the future, just something that up until now hasn't been a direct relationship. Jennifer, I'm not sure if the Partnership has anything directly with DOT.

Jennifer Hamilton:
No. It does remind me that I was given a contact at DOT to essentially connect with on this and that they do have some training there developing or have developed. So I think that's a good reminder for a follow up.

Will James:
And then the next question is for Nick—as you see the hydrogen use grow, do you feel that there could be a specific responder training for fueling stations?

Nick Barilo:
So I'll try and answer the question generally and maybe more specifically if it's directed towards first responders. I think that the material that's there right now probably does an adequate job of covering that topic. If it is for the station providers and getting those station operators, perhaps, some training—maybe general hydrogen safety training and response-to-an-incident type training—right now, there's no plans to develop that kind of material. I think there certainly are bits and pieces in this package that could be pulled out, maybe put with some additional information that could be beneficial, but there's no plans again. Just as the statement was with secondary responders, if someone feels that's a big need, I suggest you make that need known. The other thing is that it really falls on the station, the developers and the builders and the operating agencies, to ensure that that's in place. And a part of it really does become a little bit unique to each one of those type of organizations. Some like to do some things a certain way; others like to do it a little differently.

And so the point that having some information available could be a beneficial thing. But again, it's the resources to develop that—is that more done at a broad national level, or is it more beneficial to do that at the local levels? It's just something that hasn't been, I think, thoroughly evaluated at this point.

Jennifer Hamilton:
If I could, Will, I can offer a little bit more of a comment in that. There was a time when the Partnership was revamping their first responder program, that the idea was to make a parallel program for fueling stations. And the ultimate outcome and consensus was that, kind of along the lines what Nick said, the bulk of it can be covered in the first responder portion. And I realized we only saw a very high level edition of the materials today, but they're actually is quite a bit more with regard to fueling stations and other stationary applications in the whole slide deck.

And the consensus at that time was that a separate program was not deemed necessary. And another point is that the communities that are getting vehicles, most likely they're going to be getting a station as well. So in doing the first responder training, we of course cover both vehicles and stations and response suggestions to that.

Will James:
Thanks, Jennifer. The last question is for Nick. As you see hydrogen refueling stations and vehicles deploy, both from the U.S. perspective and a global level, do you see a need that these training materials could be standardized or documented internationally?

Nick Barilo:
So yeah, that's a great question and well timed. Yeah, I think there's an opportunity to do that while much of the information has pictures and some of the application and requirement is U.S.-centric, they're certainly is an opportunity for more global international use. We have been contacted by some folks in another country to possibly convert the material over to another language and I've given some positive feedback to that. So they'll be proceeding as well.

So I think yeah, there's a great opportunity there and even some opportunity for potentially for some international collaboration on what material might be in the template material might be beneficial as well.

[Slide 50]

Will James:
Well, thanks, Nick. With that, we're going to wrap up the webinar. Once again, I want to thank Nick and Jennifer for presenting the material and thanks to everyone who participated. I'm going to turn it back over to Chris to wrap it up. Thank you.

Chris Werth:
Thanks, Will. All right, everyone, that concludes our webinar today. Again, I'd like to thank you for joining in and remind you that the webinar and slides will be available online at our website listed on the slide there in about ten days. If we didn't get to your questions today, we'll take a look at those and try to email some responses back out to you. So look for those in the coming days. All right. That's it. Have a great week everybody. Good bye.